What do you think?

September 25, 2009

Dear Readers,

We would like to hear your opinions on this small issue.

“Duplicates”

What do I mean?

Well, let’s say that another group releases something that we already had in the works (As I usually have the project done within same day of release, just pends translations, and I can’t force our translators to rush it, that’s not how we do things)…

My question is… Do you think it’s still worth the time to still work on that project and release, even after another group has released it already?

I ask this because I’m not too sure if you would prefer to have the option of ours + another groups.

I mean we got lucky on the AX Docu. I think =P so again we can’t thank you all enough on that release.

But just thought I’d make a little announcement to see what you all thought about that.

(We’ll most likely continue to work on the projects that have been released, but just wanted to hear your thoughts on it)

-SC

23 Responses to “What do you think?”

  1. Well, I mean it’s okay to do it. Since fansubbing should be free enough to do so.

    Now for the perfectionist and people who wants to save their Harddrive space, I don’t think they’ll download your file because they’ve already seen it.

    Now for the side of choosing the better subs, I think those people will download it and compare the two and delete the one that doesn’t suit to their liking.

    Depending on the project, I think you could release. I (think) I have seen other projects before that’s been released by another group even after it’s been subbed. Unless that’s my imagination.

  2. As someone who basically downloads everything you guys release, personally I think that you guys should release whichever project you guys are already in the middle of doing. It really doesn’t phase me personally and prolly some if you guys release something someone already has made, since personally I think you guys sub the best of all. I think that what you guys have been doing thus far had been great πŸ™‚ So I say just keep up the good work and if another group wants to sub something let them, as it won’t be the same as H!F anyhow ~

  3. @Addicted: Won’t argue there, that was my thinking. BUt then the AX Doc. surprised the heck out of me. And a lot of people are definitely concerned with Diskspace, and more or less each group encodes differently (Different sizes), and even with the first one released, sometimes they might grab the smaller one (Possibly the duplicate from another group), and thus far, only group I’ve seen that really did a duplicate of another group was ICU’s BK Alo-Hello. I think that’s it so far.

    @dbesthair23: I appreciate your support in us, and that’s sorta my mindset as well. We fansub for a reason.. NOt simply for the fans.. BUt because we ENJOY what we are subbing. So if another group does it, it shouldn’t stop us from doing it, because we chose to do it for a reason… Although I do find it weird for some people to think to drop it because another group did it… One should know each group has their own ‘dedicated’ fan-group.

    So thanks for both of your inputs.

  4. You should never feel like you should cancel a project in progress because someone else beat you to a release. But you should feel that your project has essentially become obsolete unless you can make it worth the second download. Fansubbing is a world where if you can get it done first, then you deserve to have all the downloads. If someone else releases a better version of a video you already fansubbed (a lot of the old Matthew’s Best Hit TV subs are pretty crappy…) then they deserve to knock the old release off the face of the earth.

    But when it comes to groups competing over releases, that’s when things get ugly. Most of all, you need to take a step back and ask why you’re doing fansubbing in the first place. Isn’t it to bring videos to a new audience who wouldn’t be able to appreciate them without you? If someone else beats you to a new project and you’re still in the beginning stages, then I would maybe advise thinking “oh, they already took care of that for us” instead of thinking “those bastards!”. You have plenty of Hello! Morning episodes and other things that have yet to be subbed.

  5. @Matt: Hehe, it really it hard to says what’s a “better version”, since translations are easily just interpreted differently. And at times, just the simple choice of font can make the biggest difference, along with filesize.

    And for us at least, if someone ‘beats’ us to it, we do sorta get that “those bastards!” feeling, but we don’t let it stop us from continuing ours. And lol there are LOTS of things left unsubbed and all the groups are slowly working on those.

    For us, it’s very very easy to get a project ‘done’, the ‘slow’ part is finding the translator with the time to complete it, as we got a lot of projects ‘done’ just needing translators. ^^

  6. When it comes to duplicate releases, I just get the first one that comes out, unless the new one has it over the old in the translation/video quality department.

    If I was doing the fan subbing, I would avoid duplicate releases like the plague. But that’s the thing: you can’t really avoid them 100% of the time, especially if you aren’t aware of another group’s project that mirrors your own. I know a lot of people out there have their favorite groups that they’d always take releases from over anyone else, but when I see a duplicate release, I only see wasted time and effort.

    I guess it’s my mindset that really clashes with the fan sub groups out there today. Some, not all, focus their primary effort on the new school stuff. With a smaller pool of projects, especially with new releases, you can see how people would compete over some of them. Since I’m not really a fan of the new stuff, I’d be focusing on getting all the classics finished out, and you definitely wouldn’t see any duplicates coming out like that.

  7. @Lajon: Simply put, the whole ‘better translation’ is quite hard to gauge… Now.. Video quality, a little hard to tell as well unless you download it to compare. Unless some users go simply by filesize, which is also hard to judge.
    (Oh and can’t forget the different resolution)

    But I do see where the ‘wasted time/effort’ comes into play, although as you semi-know me… I’m quick with my end of things, so if anything most of the work is done, and just pending translations.

    And yup, I definitely know how most if not all fans work.. First release => Grab and forget rest if there are duplicates ^^

  8. I think it’s more up to you.
    I think the more subbed videos the better, and if there are no Duplicated subs, I think there would be more different works.
    But, if two videos are available and one have an intro video promoting the fansub and another don’t, I’ll prefer millions times the one with no extra sh1ft on it.
    But again, if no Duplicates means more works, I think the answer is obvious.
    Btw I thank you for doing a good, minimalist and readable work. And I think that’s why people prefers your subs.

  9. If you started on that project finish it even if they are the same with the other show, because you have better subs anyway for me. I’ve been downloading and seeding your files that you subbed, and I have been comparing some of the your subs and some of the other subs. Which yours is much better than the others, there is nothing wrong in doing duplicates. Just do what you want to do, your team is in command in this fansub site. Some of em other subbers don’t care if you will do duplicates too coz they are doing it too, just continue what you have been doing H!F.

  10. Having seen several of your posts about this issue, I just want to chip in my $.02. I think you’re letting it get to your head too much. This is Hello!FANsub, by fans for fans… stressing about this issue will take the pleasure out of what you do. It is no doubt hard work, but it should be rewarding to know how much those of us appreciate what you do. Whether you release duplicates or not should be at your own discretion.

    There are people who do things just for the heck of it without needing acknowledgement – they don’t think they’ve wasted their time. You should ask yourself what exactly you’re after, be it acknowledgement, pleasure, download count, fanbase, etc. to gauge whether you’ve “wasted your time”. You could continue to release duplicates and see how they do. If they don’t quite reach the purpose that you’re expecting then you should reconsider, otherwise stay the course.

    Personally, duplicates give me headaches because I don’t know which would be better so I’d just d/l the first/smallest one. On the other hand, I also prefer to keep things consistent so I try to maintain the same group. Thus, it’s also possible for an established group like H!F that people stay with you because people are more comfortable with things they already know.

    All in all, do duplicates if they serve your goal/purpose – whatever it may be. Don’t let it stress you out and take the pleasure from your work. Good luck!

  11. @Xacur + Allen: Thanks for your replies, and we at H!F appreciate your support in our efforts. We do our best with what we got to give you fans what we can =)

  12. @kurodeus: It’s a horrible habit of mine to let things get to my head when they don’t need to be… I just get distracted/paranoid that easily.

    But the things you say make sense, and I can’t agree more on your points. And over and over, the whole ‘first/smallest’ one is a iffy topic… ‘First’, definitely understandable. “smallest”, hard to say, as sometimes ‘smallest’ can account for just crap quality. But won’t go into much details there.

    Just thought I’d raise the question and get some feedback, and from the majority, seems H!F has established its place in the community, so we’ll try not to do duplicates but then again, hard to tell as the part that ‘stalls’ us are the translations as I usually have the project completed on the same day I start on it, no matter how big/long the project is ^^

  13. If you’ve already got a project started you might as well finish it. Yeah, some people may compare your release to anothers of the same but I think because you have a fan base there are so many people that already prefer your releases to the rest. But I for one look for size and a/v quality and in some cases like with anime if it’s an mkv file with soft subs so I can turn the subs on or off whenever I feel like it. I don’t worry about hdd space all to often because most of the time when I’m crunching low on space I’ll just burn a video compilation like with the Aya performance one I did http://www.hello-online.org/index.php?act=tracker&CODE=details&torrent=18907 to free up space on the hdd. And for those files with soft subs they can also be burned along with the dvd giving me that subtitle option like a real dvd or even if the subs are separate I can load and burn .ass or .srt sub files adding however many extra subs I find onto the disc. Thats my two cents.

  14. I don’t see how this will ever come up. You guys release everything so fast, what’s the point of even worrying about this?
    Besides, don’t you think the community is better served by people doing videos that haven’t been translated yet instead of having multiple copies of the same thing?

    I mean, it’s one thing if your version offers something above and beyond what is already out there. If so, then, by all means release your version, too. But otherwise, I like seeing new stuff.

  15. @Little Johnny Tebbis: Hmm sorta missed the point there =P.

    As I was meaning, because I’m able to complete projects within the day I start it, it just pends the Translator’s pace. Which other groups can easily beat us in that department at times. So the problem is mainly, when another group beats us to it so to speak, if we should continue.

    It isn’t that we WAIT till another group releases it and then start on the project, don’t misunderstand that. As our version has already been STARTED before the groups more or less make their release. ^^

  16. I just want to say something more about this topic, I think it’s best if you just continue your works even if the other subbers beat you to it. So what if you have duplicates, like in anime there are also duplicates and people just downloads the better one which I have already said that yours is better. Don’t stop doing duplicates, coz if you stop it then the other subbers didn’t even realesed it or finished it then at least you made one for the fans because this is for the fans that loves what you do for them.

  17. @SacredCultivator

    I think I got what you were saying just fine. I don’t know how all of this fansub stuff works, but wouldn’t the translation be the largest/most time consuming part of the project? If translation hasn’t even begun (or has just begun) and someone else releases the video, then why bother to put in all that work is what I was saying – albeit with the caveat that I mentioned before that if your version offers something special or unique compared to existing versions then I’d complete it.

    I knew you didn’t mean you were just going to go around redoing things other people have done before. All I meant was if there is a significant amount of work left on a project and another group puts out a version that is generally equivalent to what you would have released, then working on something else would probably be a bigger benefit to the community.

  18. This happens on the anime scene as well (nothing new here), I wont go into the using of deep words stuff, but if you feel like finishing it, then finish them. I’d feel more wasteful if I started something and then abandoning them for good (another thanks for Koinu no Waltz for your team =P). I mean that for me, I’d feel a bit down when somebody beat me to it, yet empty on not giving them a piece of what I did (something like that).

    Off topic:
    So on the note of that “duplicate stuff” you mentioned, I really do think that the massive plan on overdoing (110% or 220%) it materialized upon seeing your release, if your team did it in record time, I’m sure the “full crew” mentioned would not take less than a week on doing it.

  19. Even if some one beat you to it you should still work on it if you already started it. You’ve spent time on it already so why not finish it instead of canceling the project? If you cancel it then it would seem as though you wasted all your time on nothing.

    Knowing that someone else already released thier own version subbed you could take your time and make your version the best.

  20. I actually end up downloading the H!F regardless. If another subber does submit something before you guys, I’ll actually download the H!F version and delete the other one XP I’ve been watching H!F videos for so long, I know that you guys always give awesome subs on high quality video and you’ve never let us down. You even relaese it in H264 AND Xvid! Who else does that? H!F all the way!

  21. Having a collection or archives done by a group of people, especially great ones like H!F is great to have. Though we are fans, we are just fans of H!F. There’s no reason to hesitate subbing something even if another group is doing it or released it faster. We support H!F either way and that’s the bottom line. Just keep up the great work on your end guys πŸ˜€ You guys have established a great fan base as it is and always increasing. H!F’s collection weather it’s been made or not is for sure better than the rest, because you guys are dedicated and always caring of the fans as well as very consistent. If you guys enjoy what you’re doing, don’t hold back on anything πŸ˜›

  22. Woah… accidently disabled a email-notifications and was curious why there were comments and I didn’t get any notifications.

    Well, lol, thanks for all your input on this matter… And for the one project this was primarily in regard to.. The translator decided to drop it despite me showing her this thread. =/

    Quite a disappointment really, as I did work hard on it… Translations take up the bulk of the work, but lol, you can’t disregard that just timing/typesetting the project as ‘not a bulk of the work’ either.

    Bahs on that, it’s a shame really. But in the future, depending on the translator, we’ll see if we will release our own version of something that has already been released.

    Again, thank you for all your input on this issue, and we at H!F appreciate your support in our efforts.

  23. I hate subbing videos other people did only because I hate when people compare…da da da did this better you should have done this like them blah blah….gets annoying. which is why im only to 3 videos so far…

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